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Spiritual deficits

  • Apr. 23rd, 2008 at 7:01 AM
God Squad!
An LJ friend wrote:

"So, currently, I don't believe in an afterlife. But I've gotten to thinking: What is lost in spending a lifetime of believing when the worst that can happen is believing until your grave and then not even finding out that you were wrong? How painless! Indeed, I have more to lose now being a non-believer potentially heading off to hell for non-believing. So: What's there to lose in believing?"


I can see his point, and it's a thought that's crossed my mind on more than one occasion.

I have wanted to believe again, and not just for the possibility of salvation. I've long been feeling a sense of loss and longing in terms of spirituality, and the small patchwork of spirituality that I've developed for myself so far falls very short from a true belief. Is it strange that I'm not even completely sold on the ideas of my own spirituality?

But it's true. I've kept spiritual ideas that I'm comfortable with, but I'm not convinced that these comfortable ideas are what I find to be "my truth," my bedrock of faith.

This LJ friend points out that there's nothing to lose in believing, but the caveat is that you've got to believe. I can go through the motions of the faithful, and the Church can have my energy and time, but it won't have my heart and soul. And I don't think those are things I can just give freely to whomever or whatever I want, no matter how much I may want to.

Comments

[info]ertai wrote:
Apr. 23rd, 2008 02:43 pm (UTC)
Formally, that argument is known as Pascal's Wager, I think. (This is coming from something a prof said many years ago, so it could be wrong.)

I remember hearing that Pascal apparently was in the same situation as your friend. He wasn't religious but concluded that it was a "better bet" to believe in god and such. Supposedly, Pascal studied religious people and saw things that they shared in common. He figured it'd be easier to become religious if he associated with Christian more (I think) and lived in certain areas or whatever. Apparently, he changed his life in an attempt to believe. Supposedly, he was "sucessfully".
[info]ilubmoney wrote:
Apr. 24th, 2008 05:04 am (UTC)
Do you think it's possible for someone to "successfully" convert after having that kind of logic? :)
[info]ertai wrote:
Apr. 24th, 2008 05:22 pm (UTC)
I think its possible.

Pascal said something to the extent that accepting the "correct" course of the wager is not enough to "win". And he said that this realization can be the reason for faith, but it does not substitute for faith.

I guess the way I see it is this. Realizing the logic of his wager, you realize its good to be religious. So you teach yourself and convert yourself. Is this really different than someone saying "I'm going to Hell if I don't become a better person." I think Pascal said something about relief from disbelief as if its like curing a disease.
[info]robio wrote:
Apr. 23rd, 2008 02:51 pm (UTC)
Sounds like you've befriended famed philosopher and mathematician Blaise Pascal. Then again he's been dead for about 400 years, so maybe not.

Either way, what your friend basically said is known as Pascal's Wager. I've always considered it inherently flawed, since I don't really think faith counts when you treat it like an insurance policy. I can't help but think that if a great power does exist, it won't be fooled by that thinking.

Then again that could just be the paranoid Catholic in me.
[info]ilubmoney wrote:
Apr. 24th, 2008 12:13 am (UTC)
See, that's what I'm thinking, too! I'm thinking, if there's a God (a Catholic version, no less), then am I better off pretending to be Catholic or being authentically non-spiritual? (Or authentically confused spiritually?) Better to go the honest route, maybe save the redemption part for later.
[info]yerfxdog wrote:
Apr. 23rd, 2008 04:03 pm (UTC)
Well, it seems like your friend is plagiarizing without even knowing it... ;)

(And it's actually not the first time.)
[info]ilubmoney wrote:
Apr. 23rd, 2008 11:50 pm (UTC)
That's okay. I'd heard of Pascal's wager before, but your entry just prompted me to write about it. :)
[info]whackcity wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2008 12:34 am (UTC)
This came to mind:

I'm not sure if you've read Aquinas' five ways, but here's a nice spin-off of it that if you've never read, you should.

http://tuquoque.blogspot.com/2006/02/existence-of-chuck-norris.html

But you should maybe read Aquinas' five ways before you read that for full enjoyment.
[info]whackcity wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2008 12:35 am (UTC)
Here's that Aquinas thing if you're interested:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aquinas3.html
[info]ilubmoney wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2008 06:00 am (UTC)
Aquinas's Five Ways was an interesting read, but the Chuck Norris version was ridiculously awesome! xD